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Andreas Klinger

LET'S FIX EUROPE FOR STARTUPS – AMA with Andreas Klinger & EU-Inc

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Product Hunt
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Hi, I'm Andreas Klinger, investor at Prototype Capital and former CTO of Product Hunt.


LET'S FIX EUROPE FOR STARTUPS


We (the @euinc_petition crew) is on Monday again in Brussels. We want your input beforehand.


What questions about EU-Inc do you have?

What ideas have you got to improve Europe for Startups?

What feedback or suggestions do you have?

Want to know how you can help?



Europe won't fix itself and it's only impossible until someone simply does it. So, let's do stuff.


What is EU-Inc:
A new pan-European legal entity for startups.

By addressing regulatory fragmentation, EU-Inc seeks to radically simplify founding and pan-European funding of European startup as well as and standardize employee equity options—empowering European startups to scale across Europe and globally. With over 15,000 signatures from the biggest European founders, VCs, and policymakers, this initiative is shaping the future of innovation in Europe.

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Jordi Mon Companys

First and foremost, @andreasklinger thank you and all of you behind this. You are doing god's work and I am happy to get involved should you need any help.


I know this is not the focus of the bill proposal per se but how can an initiative like this succeed without a fiscal union that allows for a cross European-sized, unified capital markets that would drive healthy and regular venture investment?

Andreas Klinger
Product Hunt

@jordimonpmm 

Basically, our hack is to only european-ize capital law (for incorporation, fundraising, stockoptions, captable, etc) and keep taxes + employment law local


None ideal BUT allows us to get it passed.


Brussels might do additional sandboxes/grants/programs for startups to reduce or standardize early stage taxes - but this should be not a hard-link for the entity

Jordi Mon Companys

@andreasklinger Look, it's fantastic starting point. I hope this gets implemented.

EU-INC

From twitter/X: @__snamber https://x.com/__snamber/status/1890050187889930402

⁠Abolish taxing unrealized gains when moving between EU countries (exit tax) – freedom of movement needs to be frictionless, as people think it is

Wealth tax certainty across Europe – make it clear that across the EU equity itself is not considered a liquid asset, and cannot be taxed like being liquid. To close the buy-borrow-die loophole tax loans taken out against equity instead – anything but illiquid assets

It must stop feeling risky to tie yourself to a European jurisdiction, at the moment governments are getting really creative when it comes to new taxes (often on illiquid assets) and that drives founders away

Andreas Klinger
Product Hunt

@__snamber @euinc_petition 

fwiw i agree on all points


one thing we are pushing for with EU-Inc (and why its so powerful as a project) is that all stock options are taxed as capital gains – or differently put: stock options would only be taxed when exiting a company (not like salary or other madness thats currently happening in many countries)


imho there should be a group starting a project on deferring EXIT taxes in Europe - it's a bigger topic that we can't cover w/ eu-inc

EU-INC

From twitter/X: @SergeyPopescu https://x.com/SergeyPopescu/status/1890051468151185910

(1) we need pan EU SAFE agreement with exactly the same framework as in the USA - the American YC spent 10+ years to create it. If it is a law then it is several months

(2) we need a clear pan-EU rules for round A, round B, round C rules and clear pan-EU exit rules

(3) pan-EU rules for exit are needed as in many countries the founders or investors are held criminally liable for what happens inside the company, which nobody wants as taking money with SAFE agreement would mean obligation to pay it back and also add interest and penalties Criminally liable even you deliver the product, but not having enough sales as expected

Marvin Baumann

@euinc_petition re (1) that is exactly what we're doing. We call it the EU FAST. It's basically an EU SAFE that builds on top of EU Inc.


re exit: absolutely, exit is a big issue in Europe. We need clear rules and deep, liquid markets that unified across Europe to enable our founders to IPO in Europe rather than in NYC.

EU-INC

from twitter/X: @thiago_peres https://x.com/thiago_peres/status/1890076732927205516

what's the 30-60-90 day plan to accelerate the EU?

Andreas Klinger
Product Hunt
Chris Messina
Raycast

What's happened in the 4 months since @EU-Inc launched?

Vojtech Horna
EU-Inc

@chrismessina Lots!

  • 15,000 people signed.

  • A full proposal was developed (https://proposal.eu-inc.org/) and delivered to the Commission

  • EU Inc held meetings with the teams of four responsible Commissioners

  • At the World Economic Forum, President of the European Commission voiced her support for ambitious proposals and creating a new pan-European entity

  • The EU Commission committed to developing a legislative proposal by Q4 2025

Chris Messina
Raycast

@vojtech_horna awesome, thanks for that!


Thoughts on the 200B€ being allocated for AI development?

Dimitar Atanasov

Everyone knows EU problem with the startups are the regulations that suffocate the startup environment. I would breakdown it down in two main points:

  • Not all startups are equal - regulations are generally a good thing and EU is trying to protect people from abuse from the tech giants. However when they make such regulations the problem is that they also choke the small startups at pre-seed / seed stage. The most recent example for that is the MiCAR regulation where the crypto startups must start with at least 50K capital (CASP level 1). So no chance for bootstrapping there, while the technology itself allows anyone to start with just 1K (or less) capital. In this case it would be better to have exception for startups that are starting and want to try MVP.

  • Regulations can't fight the corruption - many if the regulations are invented to fight frauds. But the frauds continue because of the corruption. When there is no one who enforce the law, the regulations can't save you, but certainly they choke the startup ecosystem.

EU-INC

From twitter/X: @Lukaesch https://x.com/Lukaesch/status/1890138964172198182


How will the 28th regime handle employment laws? Will it align with national labor laws, or will it establish its own framework - potentially allowing more flexible hire-and-fire policies like in the U.S.?

Andreas Klinger
Product Hunt

@Lukaesch @euinc_petition 

Employment law and taxes will stay on local level


The reason: the member states wouldn't want to give up that kind of power and never let it pass – unless you cripple it to some niche audience and burden it with all kinds of unfavorable aspects


Our suggestion:

  • a lean/clean entity for anyone (standard incorp, investments, stockoptions, etc etc – but employment/tax local)

  • then separately and distinct from each special programs to support startups with their own criteria of acceptance (eg something for the first 3 years etc - but disconnected from any kind of reincorporation)

Tania Bell

@andreasklinger is this not a duplication of Pieter's initiative? see here, here and here.


combining efforts has a greater chance of success, surely

Yunxi Chang

Europe has incredible startup potential, but structural barriers often push founders to the US. Addressing funding, regulation, and scalability issues could unlock the next wave of global tech giants. Looking forward to this discussion! 💡

EU-INC

From twitter/X: @martindonadieu https://x.com/martindonadieu/status/1890050189127454790

Remove cookie law bullshit force this to be a browser setting you set once forever.

remove AI act, and do like RGPD with just require to have a plan to improve over time, for big companies only.

Remove RGPD for companies under X (rev, years or whatever)

Make EU inc like Delaware.

Make English default globally in EU

Kill bureaucracy

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