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Seems like a lot of double standards on the science side. Firstly to say that theres a lack of evidence for GMO safety (which is false), but then to include lots of saturated fat (which has a similar lack of evidence for safety). Then to include loads of antioxidants, which have a growing body of research pointing in the direction of them being potentially harmful. If they were really being science based and conservative, they may want to be consistent. Especially when much of their organic ingredients have been drastically modified over time.
@sam_sexton hey Sam, (I'm the founder of Ample). Thank you for bringing up a couple interesting points!
Regarding GMOs:
I think the important thing is to remember that absence of evidence ≠ evidence of absence. Something that’s new bears massive burden of proof so “no evidence GMOs are unsafe” doesn’t prove they are safe, but they haven't been around long enough to know for sure. For comparison, consider that soy crops were introduced in 1996, were 90% of our soy before 2004, but the soy genome hadn't been sequenced until 2008!
Nutrition studies take time, and our engineering ability often outstrips our ability to understand the underlying science. The dangers of smoking and sugar took decades to uncover, and for these, we had the benefit of knowing who smoked or ate sugar. With GMOs, we have no idea because they’re not labeled.
Another issue is that the risks are unknown and unknowable. If after decades, they turn out to be harmless, then I took a needless precaution. But if they are harmful (even if the probability is low), then we’ll have subjected ourselves to decades of harm needlessly. The term “GMOs” is a catch-all term. Each year, new genetic modifications are added to our food. By saying “yes” to one, even if they are harmless, we’d open the door to future modifications that may be more extreme and harmful. And regulations companies aren’t required to say which genetic modification was used. The opacity of GMO industry and policy makes me feel uncomfortable trusting the quality of food, or potential geopolitical issues.
I often probably eat GMO stuff (because how could I not?) but as a food company, I feel like I've got a responsibility to every single consumer, and have to be more conservative. I'm willing to subject myself to biohacks. No my customers! : ) (replying shortly to your antioxidant question)
@sam_sexton hey Sam, let's talk antioxidants!
While you're totally right that there's been studies that show exogenous antioxidant supplementation being either negligible or potentially harmful (1-3), I think it's important to point out that all of the studies that I know of only implicate exogenous supplementation, not antioxidants coming from vegetables themselves.
As in, taking vitamin C, A, and E tablets is useless. They usually use the least bioavailable form. Consider vitamin A for instance. Your body wants retinol, but the "vitamin A" you get in supplements is almost always beta-carotene which can build up and cause issues. And supplements rarely add a carrier--which is why your pee is yellow when you take vitamin B. You're not absorbing it.
But there's a difference between this supplementation and getting antioxidants from the vegetables themselves, which have been shown to actually have benefit (4-5).
See, most of the argument against antioxidants is usually less an argument against antioxidants in general and more the fact that we're not getting them from the right sources. It's a case where we know that, in the body, they DO have benefit (especially glutathione). But we haven't been able to extract them from vegetables and spices and put them into pill form. Which is why things like turmeric and cinnamon continue to have massive (and growing) bodies of evidence to support their efficacy.
As you so well put, shoving us full of shitty vitamin A and C doesn't do good. But shoving us full of straight up vegetables wins every time. I'l totally concede though, that measuring vegetables based on on their antioxidant capacity may or may not be the best way to measure their value.
So in the marketing aspect of Ample, maybe I should've said "It's got vegetables! Vegetables are good for you. We don't understand why yet--maybe its the polyphenols, or magnesium, or the thousand other phytonutrients, but they just freaking work! Another case here where, to protect from our ignorance and overconfidence, I've chosen to get the nutrients from vegetables where we know they work, rather than from supplements where we THINK they do.
For more on the vitamins, minerals and antioxidants, feel free to check out my Soylent vs. Ample blog, with the quesition starting: "Soylent 2.0 delivers exactly 20% of daily recommendations [...]" here: http://www.amplemeal.com/soylent...
References:
http://circ.ahajournals.org/cont...http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubm...http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/c...http://www.andjrnl.org/article/S...http://ajcn.nutrition.org/conten...
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@connor_p_young Hey Connor thanks for your reply, 4 and 5 aren't really evidence but I agree with you on the whole. Veg is best!
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@connor_p_young You're right that GMO is a catch all term. Which is why "absence of evidence ≠ evidence of absence" is not relevant here. In fact agriculture has genetically modified all crops, even the organic ones you're using. Clearly then, choosing whether to include of exclude something based on it being part of a vague category of "GMO" is akin to me choosing not to eat anything that is red because it's not been proven that all red things are safe. Just like with foods that are red, you should judge each GMO on it's own merit. Theres plenty of overlap between GMO and nature.
I was in the same batch as Connor and got to try Ample and have had ample opportunities to try it (he he...). For a pre-made meal in a bottle, the taste is great and is packed with optimal ingredients (from someone who cares deeply about nutrition). Worth mentioning that Connor is in great shape himself, and great shapes are made in the kitchen.
@Connor -- any plans to incorporate health plans into Ample at some point? Aka asking people what their health goals are, and recommending the optimal usage of Ample as a meal replacement/supplement?
PS: The IndieGoGo campaign is on track to grab #1 spot for food related products nearing $300k. Go Ample!
Hey @aj_shewki, awesome question! Totally we plan on incorporating customized health plans. In fact, we're actually going to be releasing 4 versions of Ample in very near term.
1 The original Ample.
2) Ample X, which is paleo, vegan, vegetarian, etc.
3) A ketogenic version
4) A higher carb version for most post-workout / bulking
We'll be incorporating actual clinical studies (partnerships already underway) + self-data from QS community to have scientifically validated versions that are proven to be effective for certain use cases. That way, we can say with more certainty what would be your "ideal" version, and at what time based on your circumstances (plus a simple UX so average, non-biohacker people don't get overwhelmed!
At least 3 out of 4 versions should be released in 2016, though the customization part is more involved so it'll be a 2017. Studies are ongoing and will be forever a part of what we do.
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@connor_p_young I'll take a lifetime supply of the higher carb version, thank you very much.
I've been lucky enough to be an early user of Ample and I just wanted to share my story. I met Connor (the founder of Ample) about a year ago when I moved in with him. I was super impressed with the depth of knowledge and passion he has for fitness and nutrition. Before he started making Ample, Connor was (and still is) a great source of well researched and thought out advice for ways in which I (and others) could eat and exercise better. I'm a really health conscious guy, so this advice was invaluable. However, I'm also the CTO of a startup so I often don't have as much time as I'd like to make the healthy food I know I should be eating.
When Connor started making Ample, I was one of the first people who put their hand up to give it a try. It seemed like a good way to eat well without having to invest a lot of time into sourcing and preparing good ingredients. I've been using the product whenever I can get my hands on it ever since: From the days when it came in a ziplock bag till the most recent bottle based version. It's become a part of my morning routine for a few reasons. Firstly, using Ample means I no longer have to stress about whether a meal (usually breakfast) is good for me, and whether I'm getting all the nutrients I should be in my diet. I trust Connor greatly (super smart guy with high integrity), so I trust the product he's put together (plus, he's been really transparent about what goes into the product and why, so it is easy to independently verify). Secondly, Ample is very quick to prepare and it keeps me full up to and beyond my next meal (I usually don't get lunch till at least 1:30, so it's important that I'm not started to feel hungry soon after breakfast). Finally, Ample just tastes good. I really don't know why, but I miss having it on the mornings when I've run out and I'm stuck eating regular breakfast foods.
Ample is one of the few products I buy on a regular basis, and also one of the even fewer products which I recommend to other people frequently. Happy to answer any questions from people who are thinking about giving it a shot.
Hey @mikedyang! In a a few months when we're in full production mode, we will totally offer subscriptions! For the time being, we just have awesome Indiegogo prices (better than retail) and a lifetime supply (28 sold so far) for $6500. That's 2 meals / day forever.
Also, we created a Product Hunt special 10% off the discounted Indiegogo prices:
- Product Hunt special: for 12x 400cal meals: https://www.indiegogo.com/projec...
- Product Hunt special: for 12x 600cal meals: https://www.indiegogo.com/projec...
So happy to see this on PH. I've had the pleasure of tasting it, and it is fantastic! Did a great job of making something so healthy, so delicious! Highly recommend it.
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@connor_p_young you're well informed 😉,another one why vegetables are healthy: chlorophyllin and selenium
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