Copper

Password-free signups. No social network required.

3 followers

Password-free signups. No social network required.

3 followers

Authentication & identity tools

Launch tags:Developer Tools•Tech

Launch Team

Render Sandboxes: a computer for every agentIsolated compute, persistent state and a real filesystem

Promoted

This looks exciting to me. But I'm a bit naive as to the engineering realities. Hoping to see lots more comments here discussing use of this.

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10yr ago

@jimcanto There is more of an usability and trust issue here. Implementing the mobile number as the prime authentification method is a huge emotional investment to ask from a prospecting user. This is not a commitment for 2-way authorization hence a second security layer that already ensured the user being involved and having a foot in the door in the users mentality. The mobile number has been shown to be a way more intrusive information to ask for then compared to an anonymous account and mail or oauth.

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10yr ago

@andmitsch Sounds like a good thing if one is interested in thwarting spam accounts within their app. And, to your point; it would require the app be compelling enough to meet that trust threshold. Interesting.

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10yr ago

@jimcanto @andmitsch I think I'd use it in my app (wip) if I make signup itself optional. Users can be onboarded without any signup and only asked to authenticate by phone number for a certain app feature when they clearly see value doing so. Not at the beginning of using a new app, I wouldn't give my phone number at first if I'm the user.

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10yr ago

@garyfung @andmitsch ...wouldn't give phone number? Even if you believed it would not be kept, used, or sold? Or would you simply not trust those promises at first?

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10yr ago

@jimcanto @andmitsch Wouldn't trust promises from a new app I don't know but just trying at first. And I'm speaking as putting myself in a normal user's shoes.

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10yr ago

YT Music

A few bugs with the login process but overall pretty smooth. Do you worry that Twitter could just expand Digits to do the exact same thing and is there a level of 2FA here? If someone gained access to my phone there's no real recourse.

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10yr ago

Copper

Maker

@steve228uk I worked at Twitter and this does not make me nervous.

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10yr ago

WebContainer API

I have a security question, and forgive my ignorance, but it seems like someone might be able to get a bunch of texting numbers do mass signups? I have no idea why someone would want to do this, but just curious about the likelihood of that / how Copper prevents that? This really does look awesome! I hate passwords so I'm a big fan of this already!

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10yr ago

Copper

Maker

@dev_gar I'm not sure I understand the question but I'll address security in general. We take it seriously, use encryption where possible, use SSL for all network traffic, use platform security features from our infra. providers, and go through a regular security audit with an outside firm. From an application perspective, we have rate limiters, short expiration times for codes and similar features to limit the potential for abuse. For example, you couldn't send a phone number in and try 000000-999999 in a single setting to guess the right number. Security is a posture and never done, so this will improve, but I want you to know it's something we think a lot about.

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10yr ago

Love the idea, but a few concerns. What about international customers? Seems like you'd lose a lot of international signups. Also, in terms of a b2b applications might also have high bounce rates and lose signups because users are not comfortable putting in their phone number in a business context.

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10yr ago

Copper

Maker

@johnny5sf we had some hiccups this morning preventing users with phone numbers from certain country codes from successfully receiving the code, but we have fixed those. So users from anywhere in the world should be able to use Copper. That being said, we see many problems with SMS, delivery rates and security concerns, chief among them, which we'll fix in future revs. Copper, as it is today, was primarily designed and built for consumer services. We've spoken with a few enterprise apps and there is a long-standing preference for email and passwords because they are a known pattern and (ironically) they are easier to share (think teams). We'll be bringing email into the fold as an identifier soon to address your concern, and have some great ideas on how teams can benefit from Copper as well.

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10yr ago

This seems really clever and secure. What are the consequences if the user changes their phone number? Is there any way to port an account over?

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10yr ago

Copper

Maker

@kaizendad not yet -- there are some obvious security considerations to think through there. Changing phone numbers is an infrequent thing for most people so we felt that we could add this feature soon. We know this is something we need to tackle and will be doing so very soon.

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10yr ago

Funderbeam

Imagine what this could do for fintech startups if KYC is added! Is this something you are planning to do? We would pay for that! Imagine one KYC that's universal and connected to your phone number.

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10yr ago

Copper

Maker

@madsemiil what type of information would you include if you were to add this?

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10yr ago

Funderbeam

@dougw Thanks for your response! We do all our verification manually at the moment (@funderbeam). Users have to upload an image of passport or national ID. Would be amazing if people could do that with you, and then be able to sign up for all business that are affected by AML legislation and have to go through KYC processes. And, it's a pain for users to have to do this again and again. I've done it three times in the last year, and even if it is as smooth as with @number26

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10yr ago

@dougw PH says you mentoined me I can't see them (tried 3 times, posted 3? Ugg😕) --- indeed, now I'm back using PH website instead of the app, just gave you a reply by editing my responses in a row. Changing history! Feels great! 😄

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10yr ago

Copper

Maker

@otto_offringa hey now, I can see everything. Thanks for your persistence, we're listening. If problems persist, you can reach me at doug@withcopper.com. Thanks for the number. We're looking into it rn.

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10yr ago

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