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Bitbounce

Charge unsolicited email senders a bitcoin fee

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Dave Cooper@dave_cooper · Programmer
This is a great idea. However, there is absolutely zero chance I'm going to use it. There's no way I'm letting your application do the following: "read, send delete and manage your email", "view your email messages and settings", "view and modify, but not delete your email", "manage drafts and send emails", "manage your contacts", "manage your calendars".
Stewart Dennis
Maker
@macgregordennis · Co-Founder, CEO of BitBounce
@dave_cooper Noted. The permissions we request are still from my company's SaaS suite, which has a calendar, etc. I've been meaning to switch this to requesting the minimum permissions necessary to operate BitBounce. Given your concerns, I'll implement that ASAP.
Dave Cooper@dave_cooper · Programmer
@macgregordennis Awesome, sorry if I sounded a bit harsh, but it's definitely a really alarming set of permissions that the application is requesting. As soon as that is addressed, I'll definitely give the application a go :)
Till Koch@till_koch1
@dave_cooper I agree. Love the idea, but hesitate for the same reason. Also, more information on the landing would be good. For example how do you identify "unsolicited" email?
Stewart Dennis
Maker
@macgregordennis · Co-Founder, CEO of BitBounce
@dave_cooper All good. I understand and will get the requested permissions/scopes updated very soon for you and others who share that concern!
Stewart Dennis
Maker
@macgregordennis · Co-Founder, CEO of BitBounce
@till_koch1 Great to hear you love the idea! As per my response to @dave_cooper, I definitely understand and sympathize with concerns that the requested permissions are broader than needed right now and we'll address that. Thanks for the feedback on the landing page. We'll elaborate on how we identify emails from unknown senders (i.e. unsolicited emails) using the whitelist.
Steven Spiel@steven_spiel
@macgregordennis lost me until that gets changed.
Stewart Dennis
Maker
@macgregordennis · Co-Founder, CEO of BitBounce
@steven_spiel Fair enough. This has been very helpful feedback. I'll try to get a fix implemented this afternoon that reduces the requested permissions/scopes. Please check back later in the day for an update!
Mark M. Whelan FRSA@markmwhelan · Founder, Rapid Reasoning LLC
@macgregordennis @dave_cooper looking forward to seeing the update.
Steven Bentley@steven_bentley_osborn
@dave_cooper When we created Bit-Bounce, it was supposed to stop email spamming rather then create more... I was there for the first launch of the product. The application ended up trying to sign in to my cex.io account. It then tried to take over the account via many reasons... It then Spammed all my contacts in my mailing list... After that. it started stealing all my data in google docs etc etc etc. Please be careful. @Stewart_Dennis. You should just change the name back To Bit-SPAMMER or whatever name you came up with in the beginning. lol.... jk jk The Ai Aspect is pretty legit tho It just needs some work on moral code.
Mark M. Whelan FRSA@markmwhelan · Founder, Rapid Reasoning LLC
@macgregordennis when do expect to get that fix in?
Stewart Dennis
Maker
@macgregordennis · Co-Founder, CEO of BitBounce
@markmwhelan Testing out the permission fix right now.
Stewart Dennis
Maker
@macgregordennis · Co-Founder, CEO of BitBounce
@dave_cooper, @till_koch1, @steven_spiel, @markmwhelan, @activeemploy, @itsthisjustin, @triptych, @joeyfigaro, @andreasduess, et al, I’ve updated the requested permissions/scopes for Google hosted email accounts. Here’s what the permission request screen now looks like: We don’t actually need to delete emails, but an error kept being thrown when I tried using the more specific permission scope. I’ll file a bug report with Google. Also, here’s a summary of the permissions for Google email accounts we now request and why we need them: Permission: reading emails. Justification: We need read permission to identify unsolicited emails. Permission: sending emails. Justification: We need to be able to send emails for the BitBounce autoresponses and the Incentivized/Guaranteed Response emails. Permission: modifying emails. Justification: We need modification permission in order to 1) create the unpaid folder/label and 2) move emails to and from it. Permission: reading contact feed data. Justification: We need this permission to sync your existing contacts to your BitBounce whitelist. This is closer to the minimum permissions we need to operate BitBounce with Google hosted email accounts. I’ll try to sort the issue holding us back from not requesting the unnecessary deletion permission. Given that you can use our service without connecting your Coinbase account, I’ll leave the permissions we request for Coinbase accounts unchanged pending a broader re-design. I hope that this quick fix helps ease the very understandable, permission-related concerns people have articulated here. I’ll work with our designer, Alexis, on a more comprehensive approach to permissions.
Kenny Cucchia@kcucchia · CEO @ Campus Credit
@macgregordennis talk about quick turnaround
Stewart Dennis
Maker
@macgregordennis · Co-Founder, CEO of BitBounce
@kcucchia Thanks Kenny. I know our stuff inside and out.
Mark M. Whelan FRSA@markmwhelan · Founder, Rapid Reasoning LLC
@macgregordennis great job, congratulations.
Stewart Dennis
Maker
@macgregordennis · Co-Founder, CEO of BitBounce
@markmwhelan Thanks Mark! Much appreciated.
Izzy Piyale-Sheard@izzydoesizzy · Community Manager - Lighthouse Labs
@dave_cooper I was personally a lot more concerned with granting the app some pretty hefty permissions to send and buy bitcoin on my behalf. No thanks.
Stewart Dennis
Maker
@macgregordennis · Co-Founder, CEO of BitBounce
@izzydoesizzy @dave_cooper As mentioned elsewhere, you can use our service without connecting your Coinbase account. So, if you're concerned about the permissions then just don't connect your Coinbase account. Also, we'll be doing a broad re-design of how we handle permissions sometime soon.
Mark M. Whelan FRSA@markmwhelan · Founder, Rapid Reasoning LLC
@steven_bentley_osborn I am reluctant to connect to my coinbase account, especially after reading this comment. I love the concept; however, it doesn't appear to be stable and well thought out at this point. Are you still using it?
Stewart Dennis
Maker
@macgregordennis · Co-Founder, CEO of BitBounce
@markmwhelan Hey Mark, feel free to DM me about this. A few things to note: - There’s no AI involved in BitBounce right now. - The application has never requested or had access to google document data. - The service is stable, though we continue making improvements to it all the time. - You can use BitBounce without connecting your Coinbase account.
Stewart Dennis
Maker
@macgregordennis · Co-Founder, CEO of BitBounce
Thank you @erictwillis for hunting us! Hey Product Hunt, I’m Stewart, Co-Founder, CEO, and lead engineer for BitBounce. Together with legendary VC @TimDraper and @alexisroizen, we’re excited to launch BitBounce - for the first time anywhere - on Product Hunt. BitBounce is a novel Bitcoin/cryptocurrency solution for spam and email access, originally conceived by Tim Draper, designed by Alexis, and built by myself. The core idea is to 1) solve spam by charging unknown senders a fee, and 2) solve email access by incentivizing recipients with a payment held in escrow until they respond. We have thousands of active users already and that number is growing fast every day. If you want a broader overview of the service, please watch the video interview between Tim and myself in which we discuss BitBounce in some detail:
If you want to dive deep into the TL;DR version, check out the white paper we put together for the new token we’re selling - called Credo - which functions as a unit of exchange in email communication (https://bitbounce.io/whitepaper.pdf). The idea of solving spam with payments has been around for a while, but I believe that we have an innovative approach that finally gets it right. The potential here is tremendous, and we’d love to refine and innovate on what we’ve done so far with the continued support of the Product Hunt community. If you find the service intriguing, please upvote us. If it’s thought-provoking, please comment below with your thoughts. If the product solves your problem, sign up straight away - for free - to get started. Finally, if you’re a true believer then please participate in the credos pre-ICO that is taking place right now and only occuring for 4 more days (buy now using Mist: https://medium.com/@stewart_denn... or using MyEtherWallet: https://medium.com/@stewart_denn...)! Product Hunt is a special community, which is why we’ve chosen to launch this service here. You are the early adopters of the future. I believe BitBounce embodies the solution to the substantial and unsolved problems of email. I hope you’ll join us in adopting it, bringing our new token and solution to the eager masses, and ushering in one new part of the future.
Faisal Hassan@faisal_hassanx
@macgregordennis Thank you so much for this!
Adam Marx@adammarx13 · Freelance writer/editor and music addict
@macgregordennis @erictwillis @timdraper @alexisroizen @stewart_dennis This is a really intriguing idea. I especially love it as a way to make money relatively easily and shift how people feel about unsolicited emails. Would be interested to see how much raw bitcoin money could be made from everyday nonsolicited emails using this application. H/t @rrhoover
Eli Weiss@eli_weiss · Tech champion @bhphotovideo
@macgregordennis @erictwillis @timdraper @alexisroizen @stewart_dennis how is this different than 21.co?
Stewart Dennis
Maker
@macgregordennis · Co-Founder, CEO of BitBounce
@eli_weiss @erictwillis @timdraper @alexisroizen @stewart_dennis There are some commonalities, but a lot of significant and subtle differences. For example, our solution also addresses the spam problem and we integrate seamlessly with existing email accounts. The white paper further elaborates on the unique characteristics of our solution: https://bitbounce.io/whitepaper.pdf
aris alexis@arisalexis
@macgregordennis @eli_weiss @erictwillis @timdraper @alexisroizen @stewart_dennis would you say that you copied the idea of my product https://www.producthunt.com/post... completely or partially?
Stewart Dennis
Maker
@macgregordennis · Co-Founder, CEO of BitBounce
@arisalexis @eli_weiss @erictwillis @timdraper @alexisroizen @stewart_dennis Neither. I've never heard of that service. Tim Draper emailed me about the concept for BitBounce quite a while ago and then I started implementing it around the start of this year.
Nick Fotopoulos@weeeezzll · ████░░░░░░░░░ 33% Headline loading...
@macgregordennis @erictwillis @timdraper @alexisroizen @stewart_dennis This is the question that I was going to ask:
Is anyone actually paying to send these emails, and what possible motive would they have to pay to send you a message? Most spam is only viable because the cost of sending it is almost non-existent. If it cost even a few pennies then the ROI evaporates. So what would motivate an organization to pay these fees when a financial motivation doesn't seem to exist? Also, most spam doesn't have a return address, and even if it does all of these messages (assuming wide adoption) would inundate a mailbox to the point where a person could not manage them all. So they'd get deleted or ignored. Why waste time sending a message to a spammer, requesting payment, that will likely never come? It seems like this is just an ordinary white list system with a cute, but functionally useless payment feature attached. Am I overlooking something here?
Nick Fotopoulos@weeeezzll · ████░░░░░░░░░ 33% Headline loading...
@macgregordennis @erictwillis @timdraper @alexisroizen @stewart_dennis It seem to me that you need a feature that is a huge draw to get millions of users signed up, and then legitimate corporations might be willing to pay a few pennies each to have users in your ecosystem open and read their message. But they would want some guarantee that it was, in fact, read. But I think it's going to be really hard to do that because gmail does such a good job of eliminating spam. And much like he said around the 11-12 minute mark business users potentially missing out on sales over this are going to be a BIG detractor.
Shlomo Klahr@_sklahr_ · Intern @ Digital Currency Group
What advantage does your service provide over 21.co?
Chris Messina@chrismessina · 🏆 PH Community Member of the Year!
@_sklahr_ +1
Stewart Dennis
Maker
@macgregordennis · Co-Founder, CEO of BitBounce
@_sklahr_ @chrismessina The main advantages we provide over 21.co are 1) our service solves the spam problem, and 2) seamless integration with existing emails accounts. 21.co really only tackles the email access problem, and it does so via a new 21.co email address. I think that most people want to continue using their existing email address(es), and so our approach makes more sense. There are quite a number of other significant and subtle differences as well, but those two are major ones.
Seth Louey@sethlouey · 🙌 2016 PH Maker of the Year Nominee
I actually signed up and then stopped the process at the Coinbase auth. So if I'm reading this right, you are going to pull $1 USD from my account every day? Is that correct?
Nick Frost@thinker · Newsletter Editor/Marketing @ Mattermark
@sethlouey @macgregordennis Can you add context to this?
Seth Louey@sethlouey · 🙌 2016 PH Maker of the Year Nominee
@thinker @macgregordennis there is a daily deposit authentication within Coinbase. Not sure where the money is going. I get the BTC auth deposits into your account, but why is my account sending USD?
Joey Figaro@joeyfigaro · Sr. Developer at Painless1099
@sethlouey @macgregordennis Would also like answers for this.
Stewart Dennis
Maker
@macgregordennis · Co-Founder, CEO of BitBounce
@sethlouey Sorry for the misunderstanding here. We don't take $1 per day. The $1 USD you're seeing is actually the maximum amount you're permitting us to send from your account each day rather than what we're taking. The thought behind asking for that permission is to allow you to pay for certain emails programmatically in the background. We have been experimenting with a $1 USD per month service fee for Coinbase connected accounts, but we're still assessing whether that adds too much friction. Also, connecting your Coinbase account is not necessary in order to use the service. If you don't, we'll create a wallet/account for you in the background. Some people would prefer to use their existing Coinbase wallet though.
Stewart Dennis
Maker
@macgregordennis · Co-Founder, CEO of BitBounce
@sethlouey @thinker The BTC deposit permission is for a feature that's in the settings which allows you to keep your wallet topped up at a certain level (e.g. $10). The BTC sending permission is for allowing you to pay for incentivized/guaranteed response emails programmatically in the background. Otherwise, you'd have to pay via a checkout page or the buy widget every time which is a lot of friction. I'm seeing that how we're handling permissions is one of the major design areas we'll need to work on next. I'm thinking that we might have a lower initial permission request and then request more when users opt-in to certain features.
Shlomo Klahr@_sklahr_ · Intern @ Digital Currency Group
@macgregordennis @sethlouey @thinker Why involve Coinbase at all? Just let the user set any BTC address of their choosing.
Stewart Dennis
Maker
@macgregordennis · Co-Founder, CEO of BitBounce
@_sklahr_ @sethlouey @thinker Thanks for the suggestion. I'm considering that option, though there could be additional compliance requirements and security risks. Coinbase is a great company and I hope to maintain a strong partnership with them for the long-term.
Adam Kimball@activeemploy · Someone please make a good to-do app.
@_sklahr_ @macgregordennis @sethlouey @thinker I'd say Coinbase lets them migrate risk a lot better.
Stewart Dennis
Maker
@macgregordennis · Co-Founder, CEO of BitBounce
@activeemploy @_sklahr_ @sethlouey @thinker Agreed
Chris Cates ⭐@itschriscates · Software Developer
Yay! Keep up the great work!