Product HuntThe best new products, every day
Ask●|
Log In
Sign up
 
Comments on post “Storyheap”
Posts » Storyheap » Comments » Comment
H
Sebastian Dobrincu
@sebyddd · Co-Founder of Storyheap. 🔑
Waddup Product Hunters! 👋 We’re pumped to finally release the first story management platform to support features like uploading, scheduling, analytics and A LOT more. 🚨 Besides being the fastest growing medium of content EVER, stories present a huge marketing opportunity for brands and influencers. Over the past months we’ve seen content creators such as Gary Vee, almost TRIPLE❗️ their audiences thanks to the adoption and organic nature of stories. And statistics tell us this is just the beginning! We’re fully committed to helping you leverage this opportunity, not only by providing all the tools you need to manage your content, but also by helping you create the best stories for your target audience! 📸 We’re here all day to answer your questions! 🤗 – Edit: After multiple concerns, we'll be adjusting our ToS around being more transparent about the way we operate.
25tweet・
Ross Currie
@rossdcurrie · Founder, CrowdLoot
@sebyddd Does using a service like this not violate the Snap/IG Terms of Service?
28tweet・
H
Sebastian Dobrincu
@sebyddd · Co-Founder of Storyheap. 🔑
@rossdcurrie Great question Ross! Our users’ security is our top priority. We have developed our own architecture around the official interfaces and interact with the social platforms just as you would as a regular user. We’re not utilizing any unauthorized APIs, thus we’re not putting your account’s security at risk.
12tweet・
Ross Currie
@rossdcurrie · Founder, CrowdLoot
@sebyddd That's a very carefully-worded response, but as far as I can see you're an unauthorised third party application, using the applications' official APIs in an unauthorised way. Snapchat ToS: https://www.snap.com/en-US/terms/ >9. Your Account > * You will not log in or attempt to access the Services through unauthorized third-party applications or clients. Instagram Terms of Use: https://help.instagram.com/47874... > Basic Terms >10. You must not access Instagram's private API by means other than those permitted by Instagram While I understand that this service provides desired functionality to a certain user group, it basically violates platform ToS's in the same way that Instagress did, and users of Storyheap run the risk of having their accounts permanently banned. Given Instagram's recent crack-down on services like this, as they fight to combat bots on their network, what's the long-term business strategy here? It seems like only a matter of time before they shut you down.
45tweet・
Ryan Heybourn
@ryanheybourn · Internet kid. Previously @foundler.
@rossdcurrie @sebyddd interested to know if they use some sort of device emulator as an API workaround.
5tweet・
H
Sebastian Dobrincu
@sebyddd · Co-Founder of Storyheap. 🔑
@rossdcurrie Ross, I don't think you fully understood my carefully-worded message 😊. As I previously mentioned, we are not using APIs from either of the social platforms. We are interacting with the platforms through their official interfaces. As we're helping some of the world's biggest brands, we definitely can't take any security risk. Likewise Instagram, we are 100% against spamming and we have our own filters for preventing that. However, that is clearly not the intended purpose of our product.
17tweet・
Ross Currie
@rossdcurrie · Founder, CrowdLoot
@sebyddd That's because it's carefully-worded, but a little vague on how exactly you're posting to Snapchat/IG when there is no clearly legitimate mechanism to do so. @ryanheybourn Judging by @sebyddd's answer, it sounds like it is device emulation. Or maybe they have a bunch of physical devices setup in the same way that Schedugram purportedly does. Regardless, there are other clauses in the respective ToS's that cover automation, application development, requesting user credentials, etc. It seems a risky position to launch from, particularly given recent enforcements over the last 6 months
18tweet・
H
Sebastian Dobrincu
@sebyddd · Co-Founder of Storyheap. 🔑
@rossdcurrie Being vague is part of maintaining our competitive advantage. We obviously cannot reveal proprietary implementation details, but if there was a clear mechanism to do this, there would've been a lot more competitors in this space. You seem pretty decided to maintain your position. Regardless, from the over 500 brands & influencers that we've partnered with over the past months, there were absolutely no reports of security issues. We thoroughly tested that before launching it to the public. I hope this finally answers your concerns :)
25tweet・
Alexander Beletsky
@alexbeletsky · CEO, SocialSearch.io
@sebyddd @rossdcurrie > but if there was a clear mechanism to do this, there would've been a lot more competitors in this space. .. and it would be a lot of them if there is an official way of making postings. Your product looks great, and I wish the best luck with it, but you always be at a risk of repeating Instagress story, leaving many unhappy users behind. > We thoroughly tested that before launching Would be great if you elaborate on this. The site says "Not affiliated with Snapchat or Instagram.", it seems like as long as you don't have a partnership with them, it's not gonna flight in long perspective.
6tweet・
Ryan Heybourn
@ryanheybourn · Internet kid. Previously @foundler.
🔑
upvotetweet・
H
Sebastian Dobrincu
@sebyddd · Co-Founder of Storyheap. 🔑
@rossdcurrie > 'and it would be a lot of them if there is an official way of making postings' Not sure what you're trying to point out here. That's exactly what I was saying. The way Instagress operated is a totally different story. They were promoting bots and spam, through unauthorized API usage. I don't see any similarities here. I understand your point of view and I consider it a fairly reasonable concern, but knowing the details of our operation, I can assure you that none of them are valid. Our mission is to provide a platform that saves a lot of time and enables content creators to manage their stories like never before. We are fully committed to providing a secure and long-lasting environment for doing that.
8tweet・
Ross Currie
@rossdcurrie · Founder, CrowdLoot
@sebyddd >> 'and it would be a lot of them if there is an official way of making postings' >Not sure what you're trying to point out here. That's exactly what I was saying. I believe his point is that if there was an approved method to do what you're doing, other people would be doing it. It comes down to this: The official APIs are the only approved mechanisms for interacting with Snapchat/Instagram at a programmatic level, and neither of the APIs for Snapchat/Instagram support posting stories. Any other service that integrates with Snapchat/Instagram is probably using an unapproved mechanism, and so the service and its users could be subject to Terms of Service enforcement. Ie, your account could be permanently shut down. (and that is not a "security issue")
4tweet・
H
Sebastian Dobrincu
@sebyddd · Co-Founder of Storyheap. 🔑
@rossdcurie > 'I believe his point is that if there was an approved method to do what you're doing, other people would be doing it.' Uhm, that's exactly what I said before though. Anyways. Totally agreed, the APIs are the only way of interacting at programmatic level. That's why this isn't a safe and viable solution for a platform like this. You're suspiciously stubborn in your attempt to repeat the same arguments, although I already addressed them multiple times, to the point where your claims don't make sense anymore. I think I was very clear that we do not integrate with either platform, but instead interact with it just as you would as an user. Not sure what's your end goal in spreading misinformation, but I'll end this argument here.
8tweet・
tom meagher
@tomfme · now is good.
@sebyddd @rossdcurie What happens when Insta and Snap let users manage their stories (a la Storyheap)?
upvotetweet・
H
Sebastian Dobrincu
@sebyddd · Co-Founder of Storyheap. 🔑
@tomfme They promised us that a long time ago. Even if that ever happens, Storyheap still remains a very valuable content creation platform with features that neither Snapchat or Instagram would offer.
5tweet・
tom meagher
@tomfme · now is good.
@sebyddd true, I'm sure it's still one of Storyheap's top risks though. What's the team's background and who's your favorite person to follow on Insta and Snap?
upvotetweet・
H
Sebastian Dobrincu
@sebyddd · Co-Founder of Storyheap. 🔑
@tomfme Well, every business has it's own risk. :) We're product people, obsessed with building businesses that provide meaningful value. That's what we're trying to achieve with Storyheap. Gary Vee is definitely one of our favourite, but DJ Khaled always makes us laugh!
6tweet・
jeremy carson
@thejeremycarson · Founder, creata.co
@sebyddd @tomfme @rossdcurrie i think it's pretty clear that they've figured out a workaround. chances are it's sketchy at best, but what's the worst that happens? they get shut down and their users had a good run of being able to schedule and post. then insta and snap see the demand for the product, shut down loopholes, and open the API to approved partners. i say, hack it til you make it. sure it's not official and is clearly a hack, but if you don't try to break the system, we never advance! (oh and IG/FB/SNAP aren't making their own management systems. at best they'll buy a big player like buffer or something, like Twitter did.)
7tweet・
tom meagher
@tomfme · now is good.
@thejeremycarson @sebyddd @rossdcurrie Yup, nothing to lose! (Better for someone else to tell you no than yourself.) I think the sentiment from everyone is: "This is cool. We want to know how it works."
4tweet・
Ross Currie
@rossdcurrie · Founder, CrowdLoot
@sebyddd I'm not spreading misinformation. You can say it's "just as you would as an user", but from what I can see there are very clear Terms of Service violations for anyone that uses Storyheap and you are being very careful with your wording to avoid saying that this is not the case. My original question was "Does using a service like this not violate the Snap/IG Terms of Service?" -> and you are yet to actually answer that. The "worst that can happen" isn't that your service gets shut down, but that your customers' accounts get shut down. Given how aggressive Instagram in particular has been over the last 6 months with respect to restricting 3rd party applications (Intagress is just the latest casualty), it's only a matter of time before some form of action is taken.
7tweet・
Peter Sharon
@petrhon · Software Engineer @amazon.
@rossdcurie Your comment doesn't make sense to me either. You're comparing Instagress which was literally a platform for spamming Instagram through bots and also violating their APIs. This on the other hand supplies a real need for those missing features. @sebyddd already told you that they're not operating the platforms as a 3rd party but rather as an user. You don't make any sense to me man
7tweet・
Tommy Nicholas
@tommyrva · CEO @ Alloy
@sebyddd @tomfme this is the sketchiest series of responses I have ever, ever, ever seen. Very disappointing. Dodgy, full of meaningless words, overall very worrying :/
1tweet・
Jeremy Bauer
@barnabybones · Writer, Instructional Designer @ UIUC
@tomfme @thejeremycarson @sebyddd @rossdcurrie 💯 🎉
1tweet・
Alec Garcia
@calialec · Software Engineer, Youplus
@sebyddd @jsngr @jrdngonen @rossdcurrie @alexbeletsky @thejeremycarson EDIT: After talking with Sebastian, he explained that his GitHub fork was from a previous experiment and now they are using a different method instead of using any APIs. ̶I̶t̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶m̶s̶ ̶k̶i̶n̶d̶a̶ ̶f̶i̶s̶h̶y̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶u̶s̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶ ̶A̶P̶I̶s̶ ̶b̶e̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶k̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶a̶ ̶l̶i̶b̶r̶a̶r̶y̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶u̶s̶e̶s̶ ̶I̶n̶s̶t̶a̶g̶r̶a̶m̶'̶s̶ ̶p̶r̶i̶v̶a̶t̶e̶ ̶A̶P̶I̶s̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶G̶i̶t̶H̶u̶b̶ ̶r̶e̶p̶o̶ ̶(̶h̶t̶t̶p̶s̶:̶/̶/̶g̶i̶t̶h̶u̶b̶.̶c̶o̶m̶/̶s̶e̶b̶y̶d̶d̶d̶/̶i̶n̶s̶t̶a̶g̶r̶a̶m̶-̶p̶r̶i̶v̶a̶t̶e̶-̶a̶p̶i̶/̶)̶.̶ ̶ ̶A̶n̶d̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶e̶r̶e̶s̶t̶i̶n̶g̶l̶y̶ ̶e̶n̶o̶u̶g̶h̶,̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶m̶s̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶u̶s̶e̶d̶ ̶m̶y̶ ̶o̶w̶n̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶k̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶s̶a̶m̶e̶ ̶r̶e̶p̶o̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶w̶a̶y̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶g̶e̶t̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶s̶t̶a̶r̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶I̶G̶ ̶S̶t̶o̶r̶i̶e̶s̶.̶.̶.̶ ̶Y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶c̶o̶m̶m̶i̶t̶ ̶(̶h̶t̶t̶p̶s̶:̶/̶/̶g̶i̶t̶h̶u̶b̶.̶c̶o̶m̶/̶s̶e̶b̶y̶d̶d̶d̶/̶i̶n̶s̶t̶a̶g̶r̶a̶m̶-̶p̶r̶i̶v̶a̶t̶e̶-̶a̶p̶i̶/̶c̶o̶m̶m̶i̶t̶/̶3̶2̶e̶f̶0̶1̶a̶a̶7̶b̶3̶6̶3̶6̶d̶5̶d̶1̶6̶8̶8̶7̶4̶2̶2̶c̶3̶7̶a̶f̶5̶4̶0̶b̶5̶1̶6̶9̶6̶2̶)̶ ̶v̶s̶ ̶m̶y̶ ̶c̶o̶m̶m̶i̶t̶:̶ ̶(̶h̶t̶t̶p̶s̶:̶/̶/̶g̶i̶t̶h̶u̶b̶.̶c̶o̶m̶/̶C̶a̶l̶i̶A̶l̶e̶c̶/̶i̶n̶s̶t̶a̶g̶r̶a̶m̶-̶p̶r̶i̶v̶a̶t̶e̶-̶a̶p̶i̶/̶c̶o̶m̶m̶i̶t̶/̶9̶5̶d̶1̶4̶6̶9̶6̶e̶2̶4̶a̶8̶8̶9̶f̶d̶1̶c̶e̶b̶5̶2̶e̶a̶e̶6̶8̶2̶2̶6̶f̶5̶b̶7̶2̶5̶d̶f̶0̶)̶ My fork of that repo is used by a product I launched called Matcha (https://www.producthunt.com/post...) which is no longer maintained, but I want to give you a fair warning that you should be careful because Facebook emailed me and asked me to take Matcha down, but it's a free service. You, on the other hand, are trying to make a profit so you should be wary of a cease and desist on the horizon sometime soon. Best of luck. Facebook Cease & Desist proof: ()
6tweet・
H
Sebastian Dobrincu
@sebyddd · Co-Founder of Storyheap. 🔑
@calialec Alec, we totally agree with you. Building a business around credibility issues is the last thing we want to do. We want to be as transparent as possible. We did experiment with the Instagram API until we realized it's not a viable long term solution. I am taking down that repository now, just to avoid confusion around this. We are adjusting our ToS around emphasising that our current approach is somehow in a gray area and there might always be a risk – not so much for them, but more for us, as a business. Our goal is to provide a valuable service, but not without being transparent about the possible risks around it.
4tweet・
Alec Garcia
@calialec · Software Engineer, Youplus
@sebyddd I see... Just keep in mind that Matcha was violating Instagram ToS section A. 5 regarding the storing of Instagram login credentials, so there's little hope that you'll get away with even your current approach (most likely emulating/automating devices) because you'll still be saving your customer's login data to automate everything for them.
3tweet・
David Ciaffoni
@davidkc · llusion.ai 💬✅
@rossdcurrie @sebyddd Move fast and break things.
1tweet・
Ben Brausen
@benbrausen · BenBrausen.com
@sebyddd @calialec I'd make it clear to the user that they may also lose their account. Using a service that violates the ToS, such as yours, means the user themselves are also in violation of the ToS and at risk for having their account suspended or banned permanently. We saw this happen when TweetAdder was sued by Twitter. TweetAdders' use of Twitter was just like that of Storyheap in not using the official API to access the platform.
upvotetweet・
H
Sebastian Dobrincu
@sebyddd · Co-Founder of Storyheap. 🔑
@benbrusen Not exactly true. I've addressed your initial claim already. First of all, TweetAdder was a tool that promoted spamming, which Twitter had to shut down to protect the integrity of their platform. Besides that, the way TweetAdder interacted with Twitter's platform, is nothing like Storyheap does it.
1tweet・
Ercin Filizli
@ercinfilizli · #CreativeDirector #nerd - #vucxDE
@thejeremycarson @sebyddd @tomfme @rossdcurrie - agree as long as it is your personal account in risk - but for our clients and risking to be shut down is NOT an option.
upvotetweet・
H
Sebastian Dobrincu
@sebyddd · Co-Founder of Storyheap. 🔑
@ercinflizli From over 100 agencies on Storyheap alone, none had any such issues for their clients. Same applies for all the other brands and influencers. I think that speaks for itself more than anything else.
1tweet・
Ryan Heybourn
@ryanheybourn · Internet kid. Previously @foundler.
@rossdcurrie @sebyddd confirmed that they seem to be using device emulation which is interesting. Got a login attempt from an Android device in the US when signing in through Storyheap which I'm assuming was them. Pretty rad stuff!
upvotetweet・
Ross Currie
@rossdcurrie · Founder, CrowdLoot
@petrhon you're a software engineer at Amazon. My comparison would be this: My mom in Canada buys me an Amazon gift card from Amazon.ca. I can't use it because I'm in Australia, and Amazon won't let me buy ebooks from anywhere except Amazon.com.au. To buy an ebook from Amazon.ca, I have to use a VPN and connect to a Canadian server. This seems a bit daft to me, as an Amazon gift card should just be an Amazon gift card - and I imagine there must be (literally) millions of people around the world who want to buy gift cards for family overseas. So someone sets up a website that supplies a real need for those missing features. Better yet, it even does forex arbitrage to work out which Amazon site is the best one for you to buy your ebooks from, at the cheapest price (for those not using gift cards). You give the site your login details, you give it the book you're looking for, and it finds the country that has it cheapest, and buys it for you using device emulation. You don't think Amazon would have a problem with that? It's not spamming or doing anything malicious, just supplying a real need for features that are missing.
upvotetweet・