Jordan Harbinger

Host of The Art of Charm

THIS CHAT HAPPENED ON February 01, 2017

Discussion

Jordan Harbinger@theartofcharm · Head loudmouth @ theartofcharm.com
Hi, I'm Jordan Harbinger, co-founder of and host of The Art of Charm Podcast (http://www.theartofcharm.com/pod...). The AoC podcast (as well as our school in Los Angeles) teaches networking, relationship and communications skills and has been one of the most popular shows in iTunes for the last ten years with over 100 million downloads to date. I help people level-up like it's my job, because it is. ;) . Ask me anything!
Niv Dror@nivo0o0 · Words @ProductHunt & @AngelList
Hey Jordon! Thanks for being here. How effective is social media when it comes to networking and building relationships?
Jordan Harbinger@theartofcharm · Head loudmouth @ theartofcharm.com
@nivo0o0 Hi Niv! Hm, not terribly effective. Think of social media like a telephone as opposed to a platform. Lots of people build up these huge followings on social media, and it seems incredible. Yet, when I ask people who follow those people if they know that person, or remember that person, or what that person does, they never seem to remember. I know a guy with 9+ million followers across platforms and I found friends who followed him. When I asked them, literally not one person had any clue who they were. Not good. It's about DEPTH of the relationships, not the breadth. The problem with social media is that people view it as a quantity thing, when it's not. I use social media to reach out to people sometimes, but I've found it's literally one of the worst ways to get a hold of people, only marginally better than calling or emailing their agent or PR person.
Philip Kuklis@philipkuklis · Co-Founder, Hubble
Hi Jordan, what are some of your favorite books about communication/relationships?
Jordan Harbinger@theartofcharm · Head loudmouth @ theartofcharm.com
@philipkuklis Hey Philip! I devour these of course. I've made a whole list of the books I've read for the show (not quite complete) at http://www.theartofcharm.com/books
Jordan Harbinger@theartofcharm · Head loudmouth @ theartofcharm.com
@philipkuklis Some that come to the top of my mind recently are "The Charisma Myth" by Olivia Fox Cabane. I also loved "To Sell is Human" by Dan Pink. Frankly, "How to Win Friends & Influence People" is a classic and has lots of outdated references, and yet the principles are SOLID.
Ayrton De Craene@ayrton · Code @ Product Hunt
Do you have any mentors? If so what have you learnt from them?
Jordan Harbinger@theartofcharm · Head loudmouth @ theartofcharm.com
@ayrton Hi Ayrton! I do have some mentors, but maybe not in the way most people think. I don't have someone who I call "my mentor" that does oyster shooters with me on the roof of a manhattan skyscraper like "Wolf of Wall Street" -what I DO have, is a very large network of experts ranging from Noah Kagan to Larry King to Tim Ferriss to Brian Koppelman and Adam Carolla who I can call or email with questions that require their advanced knowledge, and I can get an answer. What I've learned from them all varies of course, but what I realized through that process is that the stronger your relationships with the people you seek to emulate, the more quickly you can get there.
Emily Hodgins@ems_hodge · Community and Marketing, Product Hunt
@theartofcharm @ayrton Hey Jordan, you have some incredible people to name as mentors that have and continue help you out over the years. How can someone just started out find that kind of guidance? Where should they start?
Jordan Harbinger@theartofcharm · Head loudmouth @ theartofcharm.com
@ems_hodge @ayrton wow almost missed this because it was in the same thread as above. I'd say that when you're starting, you can find mentors that are where you want to be, but it doesn't have to be the final destination. You want to start a podcast? Don't pick Larry King and Howard Stern -you won't make it past the front door. You can pick someone who has a small show in the niche you enjoy, and learn from them. You don't have to have the same mentors your whole life in the same areas! :)
Chad Whitaker@chadwhitaker · Design at Product Hunt
What were some of the biggest hurdles you had to overcome when setting up the podcast?
Jordan Harbinger@theartofcharm · Head loudmouth @ theartofcharm.com
@chadwhitaker Hey Chad! Back when we started, the hurdles were mostly technical. I remember walking into Guitar Center and finding that they didn't carry any devices that could take audio from a microphone, translate it into something digital, and then plug into the computer. Now, of course, USB audio interfaces are everywhere, and people can even use their iphone to do a show. We started BEFORE the iphone was released, to give you an idea how far back this goes. Another hurdle back then was that there were "almost 800 different shows in iTunes!" Now of course, that's a joke, because there are probably 400,000. But back then, that number was enormous, and we figured nobody would probably ever find us in there. After all, iTunes was mostly text-based at that time as well. Crazy to see how things have changed.
Vinit Agrawal@vinit_agrawal1 · Co-Founder at Tars (HelloTars.com)
Hi Joran, Thanks for the AMA. What do you think is the single most important thing when it comes to networking with people to make long lasting relationship.
Jordan Harbinger@theartofcharm · Head loudmouth @ theartofcharm.com
@vinit_agrawal1 Hi Vinit! To pin it to one thing is almost impossible, but I think my rule above about not keeping score is one of the best. You can find a LOT about rapport and connection in the toolbox as well: http://www.TheArtOfCharm.com/too...
Seth Williams@sethbwilliams · Designer, Product Hunt
What are your top tips for confidence building, and helping people to become more emotionally intelligent?
Jordan Harbinger@theartofcharm · Head loudmouth @ theartofcharm.com
@sethbwilliams Hi Seth! Confidence is a function of self-trust, combined with the way you perceive yourself, and are perceived by others. This means that we have to work on our individual capabilities, constantly be learning and achieving (or at least moving forward), and we need to make sure that our connection skills and nonverbal communication are absolutely on-point. Here's a freaking awesome place to start learning this stuff: http://theartofcharm.com/?s=netw...
Jordan Harbinger@theartofcharm · Head loudmouth @ theartofcharm.com
Wow that time just FLEW by. People can also reach me on Twitter at @theartofcharm and I hope to hear from some new fans of the show after this! Thanks ProductHunt!
Emily Hodgins@ems_hodge · Community and Marketing, Product Hunt
Hi Jordan thanks for being here today. What is your daily inspiration?
Jordan Harbinger@theartofcharm · Head loudmouth @ theartofcharm.com
@ems_hodge Hi Emily! I might be a bit of a Scrooge here, but I don't really rely on inspiration to get momentum. On The Art of Charm Podcast, I'm fond of saying things like "inspiration is cheap" because I think people these days tend to be VERY heavy on "Instragram meme wisdom" and very LOW on taking action and putting systems into place that actually move their lives forward. If I HAD to pick something, I'd say that the thing that inspires me on a daily basis is that the things I create on The Art of Charm Podcast are going to outlive me, and I follow the maxim "legacy is greater than currency" whenever I'm creating something for the world and The Art of Charm audience at-large.
Ben Tossell@bentossell · Partner, The Upstarters
What are your top tips for achieving 100 downloads?
Jordan Harbinger@theartofcharm · Head loudmouth @ theartofcharm.com
@bentossell just 100? Man, you could get that from a social media post! But, I assume you may mean 100 million, in which case, my advice is mixed. The problem is that iTunes STRONGLY favors the top .1% (not 1%, POINT ONE PERCENT) of podcasts, and it's almost impossible to oust entrenched corporate productions such as NPR, ESPN, etc, because they can pay and use other properties to drive traffic to their shows, which increases their iTunes rank, which increases visibility at the top. The key to driving downloads is to keep getting fresh eyeballs (earballs?) on the show. That requires a lot of marketing. I'm just recently finding this out the hard way. What I've managed to do to get AoC this number of downloads is do things the old-fashioned way, which is VERY SLOW. Namely, creating a very large body of work that addresses very specific needs that many people have, and then attacking those needs with specific content. For example, we have The Art of Charm Toolbox (at http://www.TheArtOfCharm.com/too...) which has subjects like "reading body language" "imposter syndrome" "making friends in a new town" "getting a raise" "nailing a job interview" "how to network" "how to get speaking gigs at big conferences" etc etc. These types of episodes, combined with what I'd like to think is good content, gets people in the door, gets them sharing, and gets them to stick. There are a LOT of podcasts that market MUCH MUCH better than The Art of Charm Podcast, but they have such high churn that they lose their fans after a short while. The podcast game is about being STICKY.
Ben Tossell@bentossell · Partner, The Upstarters
@theartofcharm lol yes 100 MILLION!
Emily Hodgins@ems_hodge · Community and Marketing, Product Hunt
On the podcast and in your school, what advice do you often offer people when it comes to networking and relationships that they find most surprising?
Jordan Harbinger@theartofcharm · Head loudmouth @ theartofcharm.com
@ems_hodge Networking and relationships are often counterintuitive. There's a lot that surprises people. For example, I'm a big fan of "not keeping score" -what this means is that whenever I'm looking to create a relationship with someone, I literally NEVER think about how they could help me in the future. It simply does NOT factor into my decision to work with someone or help them with something. This is because most of the opportunities to be helped in return come so much later, or are otherwise so far down the line, that nobody could see them, so I don't even try to spot them. For example, once I had a toothache and couldn't get to a dentist because I had just moved. A stranger on Facebook called his aunt who was a dentist and she went to work early to help me out. I later ended up getting that guy a full-time job as a graphic designer. He would never have expected that in return and I had no idea that my friend would hire him, or even that he was a designer, or that my friend needed one. ALL of that came out later, after my tooth had been fixed. NEITHER of us would ever have seen that coming. If he'd helped me just to get something in return, it never would have worked out.
Ben Tossell@bentossell · Partner, The Upstarters
If you had to swap lives with a tech CEO for a week, who would it be and why?
Jordan Harbinger@theartofcharm · Head loudmouth @ theartofcharm.com
@bentossell Great question. I think I'd probably swap with Alex Karp at Palantir. I know most people say Apple or Google, and I'd be down for that, but Alex Karp is essentially running a civilian-run, innovative NSA. That is beyond fascinating.
Evangeline Schultz@evangeline_schultz · Marketing Strategist | Intrapreneur
Jordan, are your @showerthoughts really thought up in the shower?? lol
Jordan Harbinger@theartofcharm · Head loudmouth @ theartofcharm.com
@evangeline_schultz Hey Evangeline! Hahah. Some yes, and many of those are sourced from the web as well of course. That twitter account isn't mine, but a collection of thoughts from people around the world! It's funny you should mention that, because I'm doing a show with Judah Pollack and Olivia Fox Cabane about their new book, and we mention some of the reasons that we think of things in the shower, while driving, or right before we fall asleep. It has to do with some fascinating brain science that many famous creators have used for centuries to bring out their best work and solve complex problems.
Emily Hodgins@ems_hodge · Community and Marketing, Product Hunt
What is your definition of success?
Jordan Harbinger@theartofcharm · Head loudmouth @ theartofcharm.com
@ems_hodge Ha so many people have been asking me this lately. It must be something in the Zeitgeist. I think for me, I am super interested in being the best interviewer in the world. I've got a long way to go. BUT, since I'm pursuing that goal and working towards it and getting paid to do so, the journey has been pretty successful. I try HARD not to get trapped into the idea that more is better. Sure, more fans is better, more money is better, but success doesn't mean reaching the top. If you value it as such, you'll always be disappointed. I talk to successful/wealthy/famous people about this a lot, and many have faced depression because they're never satisfied with themselves and always comparing themselves to other people. When we do this, we're comparing our blooper reel with someone else's highlight reel, and it's a disaster.
Emily Hodgins@ems_hodge · Community and Marketing, Product Hunt
@theartofcharm ha yes I think people are quite reflective right now. Jumping on your answer here - what is your favorite interview question to ask? And what would your answer to that questions be? Also - can you share a time when you have been most surprised about an answer to one of your questions during an interview?
Jordan Harbinger@theartofcharm · Head loudmouth @ theartofcharm.com
@ems_hodge great questions. I don't have a favorite interview question. Right now, since podcasting is trendy, there're LOADS of people doing things like scripting 'clever' questions such as "if you had to pick an automobile that was most like yourself, what would it be and why?" -I know sometimes these yield mildly interesting insights, but mostly they're lazy questions that are designed to kill time for the host so they can fill out the show, or they're going to become memes on Instagram or something later on. So, I go with the flow of conversation and try to elicit stories from the guest wherever I can that illustrate key takeaways that the audience can use for themselves. As far as when I've been most surprised, I think that would probably be the time that a certain celebrity (can't mention their name here because I haven't asked permission and we ended up cutting it from the show for other reasons) had told me that something they'd learned from us saved their relationship with their family. It was amazing to see that kind of impact on people who I'd previously assumed had no idea we exist and hadn't ever heard of The Art of Charm Podcast before.
Emily Hodgins@ems_hodge · Community and Marketing, Product Hunt
@theartofcharm that's awesome. Are you able to share what they learned from you that saved their relationship? Perhaps it could help others reading this chat?
Jordan Harbinger@theartofcharm · Head loudmouth @ theartofcharm.com
@ems_hodge Hm, it's been a while, but essentially it had to do with rapport skills and vulnerability. This guy had a rough relationship with his father, and we had a long talk getting him to a point where he could have an open conversation about what happened in the past, helped him shed some of the anger, and got him to voice some of the things he'd been holding on to for decades. His father was feeling massive amounts of shame because of their relationship, and they basically opened the flood gates on reconciliation. The skills to do that are contained, in part, in the toolbox: http://www.TheArtOfCharm.com/too... We also touch on SOME of it in the Challenge: http://www.theartofcharm.com/cha...
Dev Basu@devbasu · Enterprise SEO, CEO @ Powered by Search
Hey Jordan, how did you first start working with Special Forces and the Military? Hope to see you at MMT Carmel brother.
Jordan Harbinger@theartofcharm · Head loudmouth @ theartofcharm.com
@devbasu I'll be there! I first started working with SOF when a few guys came through The Art of Charm Boot Camp. These guys were farm equipment vendors and they were in great shape and really fun. Several months later, I got a message from some other folks that were talking about how "their swim buddies" came through the AoC Boot Camp. Later, we found out those guys were from DEVGRU (SEAL Team Six) and they'd been covertly sending a lot of guys through Boot Camp. After that, we started working with Green Berets and we've helped teach a lot of different units from 2nd Ranger Battalion to NSA-based units that are pretty quiet about what they do.
Zdravo Jordan, congrats on your success making Art of Charm a top podcast. Any strategies/tactics you can recommend for getting 10mm downloads a year?
Jordan Harbinger@theartofcharm · Head loudmouth @ theartofcharm.com
@jtreichel wow blast from the past my friend! :) I did reply to this above, and I will add that doing a show like The Art of Charm Podcast is an ultra-marathon and not a race. It took us the better part of a decade before podcasts were even something you could get on the phone, and we relied entirely on word-of-mouth. In order to get that, you've got to REALLY do something that people can apply, remember, and want to share. The same is true today. iTunes is where internet marketers and faux celebrities who rely on flash-in-the-pan marketing tactics go to die. It's their Stalingrad. :)
@theartofcharm thanks - great answer above as well (didn't load for me at first, sorry for repeat ask). Thanks :)
Edwin Ho@edwinho
Hey Jordan, big fan of Art of Charm! It's definitely one of the top podcasts I always look forward to listening! Have a question, if you lost everything including financial abilities including your network, which priorities would you focus on short term and then long term? Health first? Financial second? Relationships?